(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[7200]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]
GN[US Open - 2010 US Go Congress - Round 4 Board 3 -Juyong Koh (7d)- Curtis Tang (7d)]PW[Juyong Koh]PB[Curtis Tang]WR[7d]BR[7d]DT[2010-08-05]EV[US Open]RO[4]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Richard Dolen]C[USGO3 [-\]: Welcome to the 2010 U.S. Go Congress live broadcast of the U.S. Open in Colorado Springs, Colorado, brought to you by the American Go E-Journal, KGS and the American Go Association. Check out our website – www.usgo.org - for the latest Congress reports, photos and game records, as well as go news from around the world.
USGO3 [-\]: This is round 4, board 3.  I'm Richard Dolen, your game recorder today.
Dupaaxe [?\]: But who play here ?
Josh2605 [14k\]: some one from my go club is at this congress 
]RE[B+3.50]
;B[dp]
;W[pd]
;B[cd]
;W[ec]
;B[qp]C[huggy [2k\]: wow josh, that is awesome
]
;W[cn]
;B[fp]C[USGO3 [-\]: Juyong Koh is wearing an open black dress shirt over a white t shirt, blue jeans with appropriate knee holes and black shoes.
]
;W[df]
;B[ed]
;W[dd]
;B[de]
;W[dc]
;B[ee]
;W[ce]
;B[cf]
;W[be]
;B[dg]C[USGO3 [-\]: Curtis Tang is wearing a blue Go Congress t-shirt, black running shorts and white sneakers.
]
;W[bd]
;B[ef]
;W[gc]
;B[co]
;W[dn]
;B[dk]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: declining taisha is supposed to be bad, but this result looks ok for black
]
;W[kq]C[MrCactu5 [2k\]: probably just doesn't want anything complicated
]
;B[iq]
;W[oq]
;B[mq]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: taisha games are hard... this does look much simpler for B
]
;W[po]
;B[qo]
;W[pn]
;B[qm]
;W[qq]
;B[pm]
;W[qn]
;B[rn]
;W[pp]
;B[nm]
;W[rq]
;B[qf]
;W[ph]
;B[of]
;W[nd]
;B[nh]
;W[rd]C[martin3141 [1d\]: f6 now
]
;B[qe]
;W[qd]
;B[mf]
;W[nj]C[fivekiller [3k\]: W  is not doing well 
kenshin9 [4k\]: w look sick
]
;B[pj]C[Tasky [1k\]: funny shape
]
;W[ko]
;B[mo]
;W[io]
;B[gq]
;W[gn]
;B[lm]
;W[fk]
;B[cl]C[MaedaRyo [6p\]: hi
xedover [?\]: hi
]
;W[eo]
;B[bo]
;W[hr]
;B[hq]
;W[dj]
;B[cj]
;W[ek]
;B[di]
;W[dl]
;B[ej]
;W[ir]
;B[jq]
;W[jr]
;B[kr]
;W[lr]
;B[kp]
;W[lq]
;B[lp]
;W[mr]
;B[dm]
;W[em]
;B[el]
;W[fl]
;B[il]
;W[dl]
;B[cm]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: so far... B has all this outside, but where are his points?
Goprince [-\]: i dont know chem b got quite a few points
Goprince [-\]: he is undercut everywhere tho lol
]
;W[ik]
;B[jk]
;W[jl]C[jagtigren [12k\]: yeah curtis!
ChemBoy613 [-\]: there's not another move for W here
ChemBoy613 [-\]: must cut...
nordlab [-\]: I like how you say that after the move was made and not before it
]
;B[jm]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: not paying super close attention :)
sixko [-\]: what happened in board 2?
]
;W[kl]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: W won
ChemBoy613 [-\]: not enough poins
]
;B[hk]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: points
]
;W[im]
;B[ij]
;W[hl]C[nordlab [-\]: yeah, sure, this ko clearly has nothing to do with the outcome of the game
shai [1d\]: WHy?  If B captures LM-8 then he has points
ChemBoy613 [-\]: can B fight ko?
nordlab [-\]: It was sarcastic
shai [1d\]: oh
]
;B[ik]
;W[km]
;B[hm]C[nordlab [-\]: if black doesn't fight the ko, then he judges himself fine on territory
ChemBoy613 [-\]: it's hard to fight a ko that big
ChemBoy613 [-\]: not enough ko threats
nordlab [-\]: did you count them yourself?
nordlab [-\]: or another inference after the fact?
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i don't see any that size
nordlab [-\]: they don't have to be that size, just big enough to win
nordlab [-\]: like P17
ChemBoy613 [-\]: its pretty big... but maybe W ignores
nordlab [-\]: sure, then black takes P16 and gains a lot of profit
nordlab [-\]: count the game after that and see who's ahead
]
;W[jn]
;B[hn]
;W[ho]
;B[gl]
;W[fo]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: i don't think it's that much profit b/c of g17
nordlab [-\]: m9 still works anyways
ChemBoy613 [-\]: top is smal and open
nordlab [-\]: I think this was curtis's plan
nordlab [-\]: if you get P16 P17 iron pillar
nordlab [-\]: it's a huge reduction
nordlab [-\]: in sente
nordlab [-\]: then you make profit along the top
]
;B[lk]C[nordlab [-\]: seal in white
nordlab [-\]: it's pretty huge
nordlab [-\]: yeah, black didn't play ko because M9 still worked
]
;W[ll]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: you just seem argumentitive for no reason :)
]
;B[ml]
;W[ln]C[nordlab [-\]: I'm argumentative because you seem convinced that white has the game won
nordlab [-\]: but he doesn't
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i don't think it's over, but i certainly prefer W posistion
nordlab [-\]: I don't even agree with that
ChemBoy613 [-\]: I think B is overconcentrated and has no points
nordlab [-\]: what do you call the right side?
ChemBoy613 [-\]: some points... but left is hideously overconcentrated
nordlab [-\]: did you count?
]
;B[ld]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: and bottom is nothing because of e3
nordlab [-\]: that's still 10 points left
ChemBoy613 [-\]: no need to count W clearly has more points
nordlab [-\]: really...
nordlab [-\]: so this budding center potential can be counted as zero points
]
;W[jd]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: though this move is quite big
ChemBoy613 [-\]: at the moment it's still open
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i don't consider that points
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i don't trust moyos
nordlab [-\]: so you estimate them as zero?
nordlab [-\]: what a horrible policy
ChemBoy613 [-\]: nto zero - i'd expect B to get maybe 10-15 out of the middle
ChemBoy613 [-\]: I count W+ 10-15 range... just estimate
nordlab [-\]: top right is like 15 points, bottom side is like 18? Top left is like 20? Komi making it like 60 points? Black has the right side, which is like 40 ish, then the bottom left which is 10, and the right side, whcih is less than 10, and then center potential
nordlab [-\]: it's a close game
nordlab [-\]: I don't see this 10-15 point lead you're talking about
nordlab [-\]: at all
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i think you're clearly biased :)
]
;B[kf]C[nordlab [-\]: I think Juyong is incredibly strong
nordlab [-\]: and he might be stronger than Curtis
ChemBoy613 [-\]: he beat up my wife last go congress... but he's nice so i forgive him
nordlab [-\]: but I don't think that this game is even close to over
nordlab [-\]: Do you know who Curtis Tang is?
ChemBoy613 [-\]: not over - just like white posistion
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i know of him, i haven't met him
nordlab [-\]: Tied for strongest youth in Southern California
]
;W[bn]C[nordlab [-\]: with Calvin Sun
ChemBoy613 [-\]: all the 7ds are strong though
nordlab [-\]: He's won tournaments down there, competing with Calvin, Zhou Yixian, Dae Hyuk Ko, etc
]
;B[gr]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: i think though, from what i remember, juyong's yose is extremely strong
nordlab [-\]: So
nordlab [-\]: count now
nordlab [-\]: still think white has a 10-15 point lead?
]
;W[mm]
(;B[mk]C[nordlab [-\]: because I think you're the one with a huge bias
])
(;B[nl]
;W[cq]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: i think B has about 65-70
ChemBoy613 [-\]: W maybe about the same - so maybe no just W + komi
nordlab [-\]: then remember center potential
nordlab [-\]: will be worth something
nordlab [-\]: not 0
nordlab [-\]: so it's still a decent game
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i counted it already
ChemBoy613 [-\]: but it kinda depends on who gets h15 area
nordlab [-\]: yeah. Not 10-15. It's a game.
]
;B[dq]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: who are you anyway?
]
;W[bp]C[nordlab [-\]: though if this 3-3 materializes, this should be good for white
nordlab [-\]: just some 3k
ChemBoy613 [-\]: yeah for sure, i can't read this deep back here
]
;B[ao]
;W[dr]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: w must be reading something
ChemBoy613 [-\]: otherwise this is huge ajikeshi
nordlab [-\]: I don't think white would play this unless he was sure it would work
nordlab [-\]: or if he thinks he's behind.
]
;B[br]
;W[cr]C[nordlab [-\]: because it doesn't look like it's working
ChemBoy613 [-\]: yeah, i'm not sure i understand this
ChemBoy613 [-\]: no it doesn't :S
NoBenjamin [5k\]: white might be looking at k4
nordlab [-\]: ok, nevermind
nordlab [-\]: this is a semedori
GSP [4d\]: if white can get eye shape in the corner , he can maybe cut in sente at k4, then get the n5 stones 
GSP [4d\]: forcing black to a semeai 
ChemBoy613 [-\]: yeah, that's true GSP, but i'm not sure that i see that working
nordlab [-\]: I think it's just semedori
]
;B[ap]C[nordlab [-\]: for endgame profit
NoBenjamin [5k\]: semedori?
ChemBoy613 [-\]: capture race
nordlab [-\]: no
nordlab [-\]: that's semeai
nordlab [-\]: semedori is to make a group that black has to capture at the end of the game
]
;W[jf]
;B[jg]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: yeah.. sorry, rusty...
]
;W[le]
;B[ke]
;W[me]C[nordlab [-\]: O15
]
;B[kd]
;W[lf]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: interesting way to deal with the p17 aji
]
;B[lg]C[nordlab [-\]: oh wait, no, there's nothing there
jagtigren [12k\]: yeah go curtis!
]
;W[nf]C[Verse [3k\]: o13?
chapichapo [2d?\]: I would p13
Verse [3k\]: p15 possible too I suppose
Verse [3k\]: maybe too risky
bdbdbd: what is the highest board this round with a non-asian playing in i?
Verse [3k\]: I like p13, stay connected
bdbdbd: *it
]
;B[og]C[errdi: who won in the board 2?
ix7 [8k\]: 13k-15k :P
ChemBoy613 [-\]: W
bdbdbd: lol
Northhoshi [?\]: go curtis tang
]
;W[sg]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: matt burall should be playing somewhere high up there
bdbdbd: ok cheers
dafsdg: james sedgwick on board 2
]
;B[rg]
;W[sf]
;B[sh]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: anyone have a link to the results grid?  i can't find it in my history
dafsdg: http://usgo.org/tournaments/crosstab/band-matrix/82
ChemBoy613 [-\]: oh, that's why I don't like curtis... he beat up my wife on Tuesday XD
nordlab [-\]: So who do you think is ahead, Chemboy?
ChemBoy613 [-\]: after lower left debacle I think it's at least even
nordlab [-\]: I predict black will win
ChemBoy613 [-\]: maybe B is ahead after that
TheCaptain [4d\]: white about 4 pts ahead
nordlab [-\]: I'd have to disagree with you there, cap
Analysis [3d\]: GO JUYONG
USGO3 [-\]: White has 59 minutes left, black has 43 minutes left
gragba: is there a break or what is taking so long
gragba: white has an urgent move for the monkey jump, no?
gogadget [4k\]: W o6 
altrecop [1k\]: isn't s5 bigger?
chapichapo [2d?\]: k17 seems bigger to me
]
;W[kk]
;B[kj]C[gragba: then y did he play t13 in the first place? monkey probe?
qipoj [3k\]: surely black way ahead 
ChemBoy613 [-\]: somewhere on the top is pretty big now
qipoj [3k\]: w has maybe 50
gogadget [4k\]: what was W last move?
qipoj [3k\]: b has 20 in left corner
Remember [1k\]: k17 for w
qipoj [3k\]: and over 30 in middle easily
loler [4d\]: who win?
nordlab [-\]: black has bad aji here...
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i think W dying in lower left cost him the game
ChemBoy613 [-\]: if he just played yose i think W woulda won
nordlab [-\]: white wouldn't have tried the lower left if he was confident in winning
gogadget [4k\]: what was W last move?
]
;W[mg]
;B[mh]C[nordlab [-\]: he's good at the endgame
ChemBoy613 [-\]: yeah, i certainly think juyong is plenty strong
]
;W[lj]
;B[mk]
;W[ki]
;B[jj]C[nordlab [-\]: Whoa, what?
nordlab [-\]: he didn't cut at O8?
qipoj [3k\]: w has to win something in center - or else lose
chapichapo [2d?\]: w wants to lpay s12 ??
nordlab [-\]: why did he cut at M10?
USGO3 [-\]: Ssrry wrong order of moves., but this is the correct position
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i don't understand why w does this either
]
;W[re]
;B[rf]
;W[se]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: he must be reading something i don't
FreeDoom [?\]: nothing there for w seems
ChemBoy613 [-\]: then isn't just ajikeshi?
ChemBoy613 [-\]: it looks like W is blundering himself into a loss :(
Tabemasu [6d\]: How much time does W have?
Blitzbold [1d\]: is just big
]
;B[ri]
;W[mc]C[nordlab [-\]: White was already losing before lower left
nordlab [-\]: he wouldn't have tried a risky play like that otherwise
Analysis [3d\]: juyong wins
]
;B[jc]
;W[fj]C[FreeDoom [?\]: without point around h13 b seems ahead by 2.5
FreeDoom [?\]: so b win for shure
fujichan [-\]: S5 is big sente for yose
fujichan [-\]: for w
]
;B[lb]
;W[ei]C[arbas [3k\]: s7 isn't it better?
FreeDoom [?\]: h16
ChemBoy613 [-\]: s5 preserves better endgame
ChemBoy613 [-\]: because w can hane at t6 later
arbas [3k\]: yes i see ^^
arbas [3k\]: after my question
]
;B[dj]C[quyx [8k\]: nice explanation
]
;W[lc]C[arbas [3k\]: thank chemboy
ChemBoy613 [-\]:  np
NorthWind [5k\]: my count W ahead by about 6 .. all to play for
ChemBoy613 [-\]: e11 certainly reduced midde
gragba: i think its closer than that
qipoj [3k\]: why did b allow e 11? was m18 that big?
altrecop [1k\]: ok... how can you count with this precision with all this unplayed gaps?
ChemBoy613 [-\]: m18 pretty big... i dunno... 
ChemBoy613 [-\]: i think the counting is hard... but right is smaller than i thought it woud be
ChemBoy613 [-\]: b is being reduced nicely
gragba: not with precision. but if we all count our average might have precision
altrecop [1k\]: i wanna to learn
NorthWind [5k\]: yeah anumber of areas not counted because unsettled
gragba: start with english
]
;B[kc]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: i think some strong perople counting is better than just us all counting
]
;W[kb]C[altrecop [1k\]: gragba you're very... mh
altrecop [1k\]: i don't want to be banned but you can start with education
gragba: sorry. i dont always think before i type
]
;B[jb]
;W[ro]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: how people kibitz is always amusing to me )
nordlab [-\]: If you don't count for yourself, you'll never develop better counting skills anyway
GoBum [5d?\]: Fools are easily amused.
altrecop [1k\]: i just asked to learn...
gragba: zen masters are also easily amused
altrecop [1k\]: but this is KGS and people say "learn english"
gragba: but people say theire sorry too.
nordlab [-\]: Clearly KGS is an English only server
nordlab [-\]: it's not like we have whole other rooms where people speak other languages
qipoj [3k\]: back to how to count ...
NorthWind [5k\]: lol
qipoj [3k\]: someone give a lesson please :)
mach1 [-\]: can we please keep the chat in here related to the game at hand
altrecop [1k\]: ok, i'm sorry people, i'll never ask again until i get a master English title...
gogadget [4k\]: W k4 
Vovka27 [3k\]: k4 - 4k move :)
covtxrider [15k\]: territoy + 1/3 moyo + 8 for sente -8 per weak group
chapichapo [2d?\]: hahaha
MPokora: n18?
wduro [5k\]: thinking n 18 better for black keeping sente
zheng [6k\]: what if a pro wins the tournament? does the top rank amateur get to go to worlds?
FreeDoom [?\]: l19
Dontgoplz [19k\]: I don't think they care about fame playing Go.. :)
FreeDoom [?\]: huge reverse sente
]
;B[oe]
;W[mb]C[gogadget [4k\]: b n18 first
FreeDoom [?\]: n16
Kryo [10k\]: W A10
]
;B[ka]
;W[ma]C[FreeDoom [?\]: n16 ???
FreeDoom [?\]: no sorry
FreeDoom [?\]: n19 cover :)
NorthWind [5k\]: f11
wduro [5k\]: p16?
FreeDoom [?\]: so s7 now
FreeDoom [?\]: or h16
gogadget [4k\]: g11 
]
;B[rm]C[flooder: go cjheaven
]
;W[bk]C[Archron [5k\]: cjheaven?
Archron [5k\]: where
indianayk [4d\]: n18, o18, p15, o17 sequence was better for b
FreeDoom [?\]: b7
nordlab [-\]: I guess this is basically Meatlover vs cjheaven
FreeDoom [?\]: e8 ko seems sente
wduro [5k\]: b8
]
;B[bf]C[flooder: e6 seems to be auto-atari
]
;W[bj]
;B[bi]C[gragba: yeah... its called ko
]
;W[eh]C[gragba: ah e6 sorry. i thought e8
Analysis [3d\]: e12 good
panwisdom [5d\]: its ok  but not that good
]
;B[dh]
;W[hi]
;B[ih]C[panwisdom [5d\]: b6 for b
]
;W[hh]C[Analysis [3d\]: b6 is white...
panwisdom [5d\]: b7
FlatLine [5k\]: F18 for b
]
;B[el]C[Analysis [3d\]: f18 doesn't work
yougotPWND [5d?\]: pretty close i guess
]
;W[gm]C[wduro [5k\]: it may have if ladder wasnt in favour of white
FlatLine [5k\]: now
ethanb [1d\]: dang, I'm late for work
Rakurai [5k\]: f18 could work if b had a stone at g16 but how it stands here it won't work
]
;B[hb]C[wduro [5k\]: wouldnt necessarily have to be g16
gragba: i think h18 and if white answeres g18 THEN f18
]
;W[an]C[Rakurai [5k\]: No but it would definitely need a stone there or close by
ghtwfs: close game
wduro [5k\]: f18 could also work with stone at g 14
Analysis [3d\]: well, f18 works now
Analysis [3d\]: but so do other moves
Analysis [3d\]: can w kill black if black ignores?
Analysis [3d\]: doesn't look like it
gragba: looks dangerous though
wduro [5k\]: seems to reinforce b9 group
twotwothr [4d\]: maybe force some internal points filled
ix7 [8k\]: can't w live in the corner?
gogadget [4k\]: no
wduro [5k\]: not likel
wduro [5k\]: likely*
nicinima [8k\]: which corner you mean?
Godaisuki [2d\]: how was Eric's game?
gogadget [4k\]: only if he kills g3 but w lacks libs
ix7 [8k\]: the corner everyone was talking about, bottom left
cyc [?\]: hi Richaard, thx for the mesaage
TheCaptain [4d\]: g1 is sente now
Analysis [3d\]: what about b12?
pebarefoot [-\]: Eric resigned
Godaisuki [2d\]: ah
Godaisuki [2d\]: thanks
]
;B[jp]C[pebarefoot [-\]: np
gragba: @ix: i think nicinima just couldnt believe it
covtxrider [15k\]: how much time left?  are they going to take lunch?
]
;W[fr]C[ix7 [8k\]: b is very much behind in points, am I right?
Analysis [3d\]: oooooh!
Rakurai [5k\]: White is aiming for e4
iaznab [1k\]: can someone link the results page here please?
Acemi [?\]: g4 f3 cut actually
Sven84 [3k\]: i flinched in pain when i look at b now
Sven84 [3k\]: flinch
xedover [?\]: http://www.usgo.org/tournaments/crosstab/band-matrix/82
Analysis [3d\]: juyong makes endgame very hard
iaznab [1k\]: thanks xedover
Analysis [3d\]: for other player :D
Godaisuki [2d\]: will white go for ko?
qipoj [3k\]: b h1 is strong -- w j2 group weak after o2
Arhiman [1k\]: wow korean style is so messy
Remember [1k\]: wonderfully messy
Vovka27 [3k\]: h1 - dead corner.. o2 -> l1 ^^
USGO3 [-\]: White has 50 minutes left; Black has 10 minutes left
NorthWind [5k\]: B f3 maybe
fivekiller [3k\]: messier   the better
KCN [1k\]: f1
fivekiller [3k\]: agree? Analy?
Analysis [3d\]: white kill go for ko, after all, it's his name
bobombera [7k?\]: f1
Godaisuki [2d\]: LOL
Analysis [3d\]: yes fivekiller :D
Analysis [3d\]: messy is best
Verse [3k\]: hmm
Vovka27 [3k\]: f1 seems best or no?
gragba: i like h1 better
fivekiller [3k\]: patisularly when you are loosing
Rakurai [5k\]: Black should just play f3
Analysis [3d\]: yes :)
fivekiller [3k\]: lol
Verse [3k\]: f3 seems fine
Vovka27 [3k\]: h1 - b dead at corner))
Rakurai [5k\]: He would still be ahead and it ends in sente
Rakurai [5k\]: with f3
LearnAgain [-\]: b f3 looks like it would be a disaster
yougotPWND [6d?\]: b has to connect or fight the ko
gragba: right. thanks
Vovka27 [3k\]: f1 not works?
psjgosonmu [6d?\]: I think that it is hopeless game for black.
yougotPWND [6d?\]: you people should count. b will probably lose
fivekiller [3k\]: what out O2  B
hdfh: W is amazing
Arhiman [1k\]: a6 feels like deep reading
kostuek [-\]: se counts for me
]
;B[fq]
;W[gs]
;B[er]C[LearnAgain [-\]: oh man
]
;W[es]C[KCN [1k\]: crap
]
;B[fs]C[yougotPWND [6d?\]: lolwut b lost
LearnAgain [-\]: thats a huge ko
LearnAgain [-\]: massive
yougotPWND [6d?\]: not really
Rakurai [5k\]: We see
KCN [1k\]: 7D on a scale up to 20 D
yougotPWND [6d?\]: oh yeah
yougotPWND [6d?\]: b may die if he loses
]
;W[lh]
;B[kg]
;W[fr]C[fivekiller [3k\]: W  has lots of time to tkink
yougotPWND [6d?\]: if b loses he dies
]
;B[eq]C[Romeo [4d?\]: b had 10 mins left right?
yougotPWND [6d?\]: fail
yougotPWND [6d?\]: w connect is sente....
Rakurai [5k\]: B can always play b3
LearnAgain [-\]: or, w could go for it all and cut
gragba: no. b can throw in and then approach with b3.
LearnAgain [-\]: ah
fivekiller [3k\]: cut n6
LearnAgain [-\]: exactly
gragba: or just b3
LearnAgain [-\]: just connect is big enough
yougotPWND [6d?\]: or just resign
NorthWind [5k\]: yeah B b3 next
gragba: white next
yougotPWND [6d?\]: b is hopeless now
LearnAgain [-\]: thats 8 points atleast in endgame
Verse [3k\]: b3 is not a threat, it's gote life
Watcher [-\]: TIME?
globax [2d\]: f1-o6-g18 w+
Verse [3k\]: so white could hypothetically tenuki here.
yougotPWND [6d?\]: no
fivekiller [3k\]: 45min--87 min.
yougotPWND [6d?\]: then its a ko...
fivekiller [3k\]: 45-7
Watcher [-\]: sorry what...b has only 7 minutes
gragba: 87
Watcher [-\]: first one ok
fivekiller [3k\]: 7 min,
Watcher [-\]: why is w so slow
gragba: 7min?
gragba: ok
LearnAgain [-\]: because w has 45 mins to think...
fivekiller [3k\]: yes
Watcher [-\]: why is b so slow
Romeo [4d?\]: lol
Kryo [10k\]: he will cut and try to retake the ko maybe. 
Sven84 [3k\]: doesn't need the ko
LearnAgain [-\]: w is counting atm
Sven84 [3k\]: b can just capture by taking liberties
stoneman [4d\]: b doesn't have enough
fivekiller [3k\]: o2  is bad aji  for W
nordlab [-\]: this is so sad..
qipoj [3k\]: can w make 2 eyes on the bottom
Watcher [-\]: is f1 and o6 equivalents? you know one plays that...then other plays this
]
;W[bs]
;B[bq]C[Romeo [4d?\]: miai
]
;W[ks]
;B[fs]
;W[ii]
;B[ji]
;W[fr]C[fivekiller [3k\]: W will win
]
;B[hs]
;W[is]
;B[fs]
;W[rh]
;B[qh]
;W[fr]C[qipoj [3k\]: d1
]
;B[en]C[Rakurai [5k\]: I like the e6 threat
Kryo [10k\]: D5?
NoBenjamin [5k\]: no
nicinima [8k\]: just f6 
nicinima [8k\]: i dont think ignoring is a good idead
Rakurai [5k\]: It's not
Rakurai [5k\]: Black is threatening to cut white's middle group
NorthWind [5k\]: and d5 also
gragba: and white seems to be thinking wether it can live or link up anyways
nicinima [8k\]: and taking is sente if w wants to save d6 
indianayk [4d\]: no big threat left for w
Rakurai [5k\]: D5 is a threat for white
NoBenjamin [5k\]: d8 is an optionthough
NoBenjamin [5k\]: d5 loses f10
bobombera [7k?\]: f1, no
holynec [?\]: who will win?!
bobombera [7k?\]: f1, n6
ZeroKun [-\]: find out next week!
Godaisuki [2d\]: lol -_-
Rakurai [5k\]: I bet black wins
holynec [?\]: when did you become admin zerokun
]
;W[fn]
;B[fs]C[kostuek [-\]: the stronger one
ZeroKun [-\]: like years ago
]
;W[ai]C[covtxrider [15k\]: USGO, how much time is left, are they going to take lunch?
holynec [?\]: 27
holynec [?\]: ?
nicinima [8k\]: they alvays do in such moments...
ZeroKun [-\]: thought lunch was 30min ago
ZeroKun [-\]: atleast from what i saw monday
Rakurai [5k\]: Black should ignore
]
;B[ds]C[indianayk [4d\]: d5 is bad threat guranteeing b's safetty
]
;W[bh]C[NorthWind [5k\]: ooh
]
;B[ch]
;W[ig]
;B[jh]C[holynec [?\]: maybe they decide not to eat >:}
]
;W[gb]C[qipoj [3k\]: why c12?
nhanh [1d\]: make life and rescue points
]
;B[hg]C[Rakurai [5k\]: They came to the go congress for go not lunch
]
;W[gg]C[climbtrees [7k\]: Colo Springs has great food
]
;B[hf]C[SWM [-\]: wow
SWM [-\]: 2 hourse
SWM [-\]: *hours
]
;W[gf]C[yougotPWND [6d?\]: wow good congress food? are you serious?
Kryo [10k\]: b left side dead?
]
;B[he]C[Rakurai [5k\]: No
]
;W[ge]C[Rakurai [5k\]: He will b13
fly [1d\]: w angling for the b group on the left?
]
;B[bg]C[yougotPWND [6d?\]: 2010 D.C. had pretty decent food
climbtrees [7k\]: yuppie town, good food
yougotPWND [6d?\]: i mean 2009
]
;W[ci]C[Rakurai [5k\]: now e 13
yougotPWND [6d?\]: 2008 sucked though
Rakurai [5k\]: nvm
]
;B[bl]
;W[al]C[Rakurai [5k\]: false eye my bad
]
;B[bi]
;W[hd]
;B[je]
;W[ci]C[belka [8k\]: e13
]
;B[bc]C[belka [8k\]: is life
]
;W[cc]
;B[bi]C[Kryo [10k\]: yeah
NoBenjamin [5k\]: d5
Vovka27 [3k\]: d8:)
Kryo [10k\]: but black wants to die trying to get that ko :)
NoBenjamin [5k\]: nvm
Juicy [4k\]: sry i was afk what did white get out of the bottom left ko
nhanh [1d\]: b cannot die
LearnAgain [-\]: he got into the left territory
Juicy [4k\]: and another ko? lol
fly [1d\]: the game is close? a few points?
]
;W[si]C[Lodestone [3k\]: a12?
]
;B[sj]C[nhanh [1d\]: just no threats for w
Juicy [4k\]: take
]
;W[ci]
;B[ad]
;W[ae]
;B[bi]C[Juicy [4k\]: a2 threat
Juicy [4k\]: a3
Juicy [4k\]: i guess
]
;W[ie]C[nhanh [1d\]: oh
]
;B[if]C[indianayk [4d\]: b is playing very well and game is getting close
nhanh [1d\]: A14 A12 nice combo for b
Juicy [4k\]: o4 kinda good threat
kukulis4 [2d\]: yeah
nhanh [1d\]: I guess b will gain many points there
nhanh [1d\]: w plays many point losing threats
NorthWind [5k\]: most enjoyable game
nicinima [8k\]: please explain why o4?
yougotPWND [6d?\]: game is pretty close
]
;W[ci]C[M4TTY [1k\]: where can i find results pls ? 
]
;B[af]
;W[ac]C[nicinima [8k\]: oh you mean for white, nvm
]
;B[bi]C[adiida [3k\]: i think living there is enough for black to win 
adiida [3k\]: e 13 and it's his game
fly [1d\]: b up by 2 or 3?
au2 [2d?\]: http://www.usgo.org/tournaments/crosstab/band-matrix/82
LearnAgain [-\]: black is alive
Hangovers [3k\]: http://usgo.org/tournaments/crosstab/band-matrix/82
M4TTY [1k\]: thank you
rejuv [5d\]: life isn't the issue here lol
nhanh [1d\]: w should connect
nhanh [1d\]: no way to win this ko
nhanh [1d\]: b doesnt need ko any more
nhanh [1d\]: A12 works
rejuv [5d\]: connect and risk more
adiida [3k\]: i believe it's by more than 3 ... black leads by  ~10 even if white wins the ko
rejuv [5d\]: b will then play a13
indianayk [4d\]: connect where?
nhanh [1d\]: a9 is ok
nhanh [1d\]: w lost tons of points in this ko
rejuv [5d\]: a2
Severdija [1d\]: i think w still ahead...
ChemBoy613 [-\]: it still looks like w made up a lot in yose
ljkramer [11k\]: Why doesn't B make life with e13/
kukulis4 [2d\]: not tons
fly [1d\]: Yeah, I count w up by 5 now?
kukulis4 [2d\]: may be 6 or 8
kukulis4 [2d\]: I mean ko
LearnAgain [-\]: its close, w needs to win this ko
NorthWind [5k\]: he will kramer when no more profitable option
]
;W[om]
;B[on]
;W[ci]
;B[eg]C[nhanh [1d\]: ?
Severdija [1d\]: yes, i missed a few pts
kukulis4 [2d\]: what ??
nhanh [1d\]: I think b already ahead by one or two
kukulis4 [2d\]: why didnt black played A12 ?
]
;W[id]C[ghtwfs: w won
]
;B[ga]
;W[fa]
;B[ha]
;W[fc]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: W's yose is too good
]
;B[ah]C[rejuv [5d\]: yeah I'm confused about A12 myself
yougotPWND [6d?\]: there is nothing to lose in yos
yougotPWND [6d?\]: *yose
nhanh [1d\]: a12 is still ko
yougotPWND [6d?\]: double ko lol
yougotPWND [6d?\]: w lost
]
;W[oo]
;B[nn]
;W[ic]
;B[ib]
;W[fg]C[Severdija [1d\]: komi = 7.5?
]
;B[nq]C[fly [1d\]: y
indianayk [4d\]:  w has found the way to lose!! and b plays well.
]
;W[nr]
;B[bi]C[rejuv [5d\]: surely white must have seen a12?
USGO3 [-\]: black is in byo yomi
rejuv [5d\]: USGO3, what was white's reaction to a12?
nhanh [1d\]: everyone sees it
Dingaling [2d\]: b was ahead long time and w was desperate, not winning
fly [1d\]: they've been playing for 4 hours?
nordlab [-\]: wow, this is a close game
]
;W[ak]C[suiram [4k\]: n16
kukulis4 [2d\]: e13 = pass
Rakurai [5k\]: p16
kukulis4 [2d\]: 1 pt
kukulis4 [2d\]: I mean e13
Vinata [5d\]: o15
ackordamon [1k\]: what about p17?
]
;B[hc]
;W[gd]C[nhanh [1d\]: 0 for w
nhanh [1d\]: 80
]
;B[la]C[endonesa [12k\]: W+6.5
]
;W[od]C[Rakurai [5k\]: o15
ljkramer [11k\]: w STILL +6
Severdija [1d\]: b by .5
NoBenjamin [5k\]: n16
]
;B[hl]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: B should resign if SE is accurate
Romeo [4d?\]: why didnt b p16 first..
gragba: i think sverdija is right
Romeo [4d?\]: it's sente
gragba: after black b11 its just ,5
fly [1d\]: he is trying to win by exactly .5
Acemi [?\]: calling white to resigh
Acemi [?\]: resign
]
;W[in]C[rejuv [5d\]: i count w+1.5
Rowan [16k\]: SE isn't reading m11 accurately.
nordlab [-\]: SE is horrible
fly [1d\]: SE is junk!
nordlab [-\]: why are you using it?
]
;B[gj]
;W[gi]C[Rowan [16k\]: Just because someone asked a quesiton.  I may not be great, but I'd prefer to try to use my own skills.  Computers can't play go.
nhanh [1d\]: I count b+2,5
Vinata [5d\]: se off by 4
]
;B[ng]
;W[mf]C[covtxrider [15k\]: o4 is one point for b?
]
;B[so]C[nordlab [-\]: I think Curtis is ahead by around 2
]
;W[sp]
;B[sn]
;W[pe]
;B[pf]
;W[mn]C[Watcher [-\]: excellent
]
;B[no]C[norsu [1d\]: d5 
]
;W[do]C[rejuv [5d\]: yeah i count b+2.5 as well now
]
;B[np]
;W[op]C[Watcher [-\]: a10?
]
;B[dl]C[Vinata [5d\]: w  .5
]
;W[hs]C[ChemBoy613 [-\]: a10
Rakurai [5k\]: a10
]
;B[aj]
;W[md]C[Rakurai [5k\]: I like the 1 point kos that decide the game
indianayk [4d\]: i agree b around by 2
nordlab [-\]: this ko doesn't decide theg ame
Watcher [-\]: n16 not a ko threat?
]
;B[ai]C[nordlab [-\]: b+2.5 or so?
nordlab [-\]: I'm pretty sure...
nordlab [-\]: it's clear cut
]
;W[am]
;B[lo]
;W[jo]
;B[gp]
;W[go]C[fly [1d\]: In AGA rules... if there are still dame... is the last ko worth 1 or none?
]
;B[ff]
;W[fe]
;B[fd]
;W[gk]
;B[hj]C[nhanh [1d\]: chinese rules?
Watcher [-\]: we got two 5 d disagreeing on score
USGO3 [-\]: Filling dame
Vinata [5d\]: ok  SE correct
Kryo [10k\]: is this chinese counting?
nordlab [-\]: AGA rules
covtxrider [15k\]: this is ing rules?
Rakurai [5k\]: 1.5 point difference
rejuv [5d\]: AGA rules
Rakurai [5k\]: SE is finally accurate
yougotPWND [6d?\]: ok w w lost
Severdija [1d\]: 2.5 b
indianayk [4d\]: b has to give 1 point by w filling last
Severdija [1d\]: 1.5
covtxrider [15k\]: still dame at h4
norsu [1d\]: Can se count aga rules?
xedover [?\]: no
sai1029 [2d\]: i forgot, does dame count a points like chinese rule in aga rule?
covtxrider [15k\]: and e4
Rakurai [5k\]: It did for this game
rejuv [5d\]: sai, yes
emc3 [2d\]: b + 3.5?
nhanh [1d\]: yes
Watcher [-\]: USGO you've gone quite
sai1029 [2d\]: k, thanks
covtxrider [15k\]: and o15
ljkramer [11k\]: SE B + 1.5
tronde [3k\]: 6 dame, so no difference
indianayk [4d\]: se does not count aga rule
rejuv [5d\]: I'm pretty sure japanese and AGA counting usually end up with same result
rejuv [5d\]: not always, but usually
sai1029 [2d\]: so in aga rules, stones on board, captured stones, and territory all count as points?
rejuv [5d\]: captured stones are not worth points
sai1029 [2d\]: so it is just chinese rules?
USGO3 [-\]: Black wins by 3.5
rejuv [5d\]: yes
norsu [1d\]: Se does not count dames
yougotPWND [6d?\]: Thanks USGO
rejuv [5d\]: thanks USGO
xedover [?\]: thanks usgo3
au2 [2d?\]: thanks USGO3
Illyria [2k?\]: thanks usgo
seikenguy [1k\]: =p
indianayk [4d\]: thx, solomon
sai1029 [2d\]: thaz confusing, why don't call it chinese rule then
rejuv [5d\]: curtis so strong!
jmbac [2k\]: thanks
pebarefoot [-\]: thank you, USGO
NorthWind [5k\]: excellent game.
Shanyui [4k\]: what is taking so long. game over?
gragba: thanks USGO
rejuv [5d\]: sai, there are some slight differences, such as suicide rules
sai1029 [2d\]: o, ok
rejuv [5d\]: but for our purposes, the same
rejuv [5d\]: unless you want to suicide
rejuv [5d\]: ;)
sai1029 [2d\]: sou can suicide in aga
rejuv [5d\]: yes
sai1029 [2d\]: ok thaks for explaining
gragba: so whats the difference between aga and chinese?
rejuv [5d\]: np
]))
